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Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:10 pm
by Agent X20


From the guy who designed the F15...

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:23 pm
by Agent X20
Here's more from the same guy - with a great discussion of manoeuvrability, close air support, and loads more:



Fascinating.

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:26 pm
by archbarch
I've seen these articles and grumblings for a while, but that's the first time I've actually watched in detail. He's pretty clear about his opinions! While I have no reason to doubt him, what's actually going to happen when these go in to combat? (And you can be sure after that level of investment they'll be keen to blood them as soon as they can)

Thanks for posting, really really interesting and well worth a watch.

A

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:27 pm
by Agent X20
Likewise I've been reading the various problems and setbacks but this is by far the most coherent critique I've seen and the guy knows his stuff.

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:32 am
by archbarch
Seems like Google does too: :P

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Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:54 am
by Yoda
Trouble is having invested so much money that they can't go back on it. To make it stand up and be cost effective it has to be seen to 'replace' as many current aircraft as possible. Despite the A10 being better in the CAS role, and cheaper to run, and less per airframe it's days are numbered in order to make the F35 decision look good.

The NZ Government should buy up all the A10 airframes and then lease them back to the USAF while the F35 'comes up to speed' indefinitely.

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:35 pm
by Agent X20

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:31 pm
by Agent X20
And the hits keep coming:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -2019.html

No gun until 2019, and so little ammo as to be useless. No CAS capability and as previously discussed it can't turn fast enough to be useful in that role.

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:40 pm
by Yoda
Spending good money after bad. They should bite the bullet and say the f35 isnt the right aircraft. You will either need f22s or f16s to escort it everywhere otherwise it will get shot down. Plus you need twice as many for CAS as one gun pass wont be enough, and the f35 will have to run home with its tail between its legs with empty guns.

Bring back the A4 one of the most economical aircraft to run

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:01 pm
by Woody01
They do seem to have an amazing inability to learn from past mistakes. They seem to be hell bent on turning war into a nice sterile environment where with all its classified electronic wizbangidry the F35 would probably be fantastic. they did something similar in Vietnam with the first Phantoms, it wont need a gun because technology would supersede it and we all know how that worked out for them. But they seem to have forgotten the fundamentals again. War is not sterile, shit often doesn't work as it was supposed to, often you have to revert back to the basic fundamentals of fighting, if when it all fails you cant turn because you have little wings, if you cant out climb or out run because your too heavy and underpowered you going to loose at least the battle.
It is obviously well beyond what capability's they actually need now and seems to be totally big business with its hand up the government puppet driven, at least all the really old but bloody great aircraft will be able to do most of its job for it if they keep them airworthy.
As clean and super high tec as they want to get there will still be a guy somewhere in a cave in bare feet with an AK47 that will still be a continued threat and impossible to get despite the smartness of their shiny new airplane.

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:55 pm
by Yoda
When l read the latest news about not having the gun on the f35 the first thing that came to mind was the f4. samething again.

Im surprised that they are trying to get rid of the a10 without having anything any where close to replacing it.. But as you say not much point having hi tech this and that when up are up against a man in a cave

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:15 pm
by archbarch
This article intersects nicely with this discussion - http://www.theatlantic.com/features/arc ... ry/383516/

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:49 pm
by Evil Chicken
Yoda wrote: But as you say not much point having hi tech this and that when up are up against a man in a cave


Maybe they are hoping the "man in the cave " will steal them and try to use them??? :?:

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:25 pm
by Woody01
Evil Chicken wrote:
Maybe they are hoping the "man in the cave " will steal them and try to use them??? :?:


Well at least they will be able to jump up and say HAHA! We got you at the login page!

Is it also a fundamental shift in fighter pilot mentality? You take Top Gun the movie I was in awe at as an 11 year old, though a Hollywood dramatization it remains quite a good film, but look at what they were getting at in the film, they were training the pilots to be the best of the best, man over machine. Is that the case now? I'm sure the Top gun school is still going and the Navy seems to have a handle on the skills they actually need, but I am interested to know are the same aircombat skill sets as much in focus now as they were because I get the feeling the proposed capability's of the F35 and all the drone technology taking a lot of the work will give us over weight fighter pilots eating sandwiches in the cockpit as the plane dose everything for them, cant wait to see how that works out for them when they encounter an SU27 and its wingman from some sub standard country that gets inside its manouvering envelope accidentally.

Overall I think the US will still maintain its military might over this, but at what cost to the expendable grunt? who cares???

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

PostPosted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:48 am
by Agent X20
Here's the short video version: