Damning assessment of the F35

Anything non simulation or gaming related here!

Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Agent X20 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:10 pm



From the guy who designed the F15...
User avatar
Agent X20
 
Posts: 9892
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:09 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Agent X20 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 9:23 pm

Here's more from the same guy - with a great discussion of manoeuvrability, close air support, and loads more:



Fascinating.
User avatar
Agent X20
 
Posts: 9892
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:09 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby archbarch » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:26 pm

I've seen these articles and grumblings for a while, but that's the first time I've actually watched in detail. He's pretty clear about his opinions! While I have no reason to doubt him, what's actually going to happen when these go in to combat? (And you can be sure after that level of investment they'll be keen to blood them as soon as they can)

Thanks for posting, really really interesting and well worth a watch.

A
User avatar
archbarch
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Agent X20 » Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:27 pm

Likewise I've been reading the various problems and setbacks but this is by far the most coherent critique I've seen and the guy knows his stuff.
User avatar
Agent X20
 
Posts: 9892
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:09 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby archbarch » Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:32 am

Seems like Google does too: :P

Untitled-1.jpg
Untitled-1.jpg (68.5 KiB) Viewed 4636 times
User avatar
archbarch
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Yoda » Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:54 am

Trouble is having invested so much money that they can't go back on it. To make it stand up and be cost effective it has to be seen to 'replace' as many current aircraft as possible. Despite the A10 being better in the CAS role, and cheaper to run, and less per airframe it's days are numbered in order to make the F35 decision look good.

The NZ Government should buy up all the A10 airframes and then lease them back to the USAF while the F35 'comes up to speed' indefinitely.
Yoda
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:17 am
Location: Christchurch

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Agent X20 » Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:35 pm

User avatar
Agent X20
 
Posts: 9892
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:09 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Agent X20 » Thu Jan 01, 2015 4:31 pm

And the hits keep coming:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... -2019.html

No gun until 2019, and so little ammo as to be useless. No CAS capability and as previously discussed it can't turn fast enough to be useful in that role.
User avatar
Agent X20
 
Posts: 9892
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:09 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Yoda » Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:40 pm

Spending good money after bad. They should bite the bullet and say the f35 isnt the right aircraft. You will either need f22s or f16s to escort it everywhere otherwise it will get shot down. Plus you need twice as many for CAS as one gun pass wont be enough, and the f35 will have to run home with its tail between its legs with empty guns.

Bring back the A4 one of the most economical aircraft to run
Yoda
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:17 am
Location: Christchurch

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Woody01 » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:01 pm

They do seem to have an amazing inability to learn from past mistakes. They seem to be hell bent on turning war into a nice sterile environment where with all its classified electronic wizbangidry the F35 would probably be fantastic. they did something similar in Vietnam with the first Phantoms, it wont need a gun because technology would supersede it and we all know how that worked out for them. But they seem to have forgotten the fundamentals again. War is not sterile, shit often doesn't work as it was supposed to, often you have to revert back to the basic fundamentals of fighting, if when it all fails you cant turn because you have little wings, if you cant out climb or out run because your too heavy and underpowered you going to loose at least the battle.
It is obviously well beyond what capability's they actually need now and seems to be totally big business with its hand up the government puppet driven, at least all the really old but bloody great aircraft will be able to do most of its job for it if they keep them airworthy.
As clean and super high tec as they want to get there will still be a guy somewhere in a cave in bare feet with an AK47 that will still be a continued threat and impossible to get despite the smartness of their shiny new airplane.
User avatar
Woody01
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:09 pm
Location: Rangiora

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Yoda » Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:55 pm

When l read the latest news about not having the gun on the f35 the first thing that came to mind was the f4. samething again.

Im surprised that they are trying to get rid of the a10 without having anything any where close to replacing it.. But as you say not much point having hi tech this and that when up are up against a man in a cave
Yoda
 
Posts: 619
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:17 am
Location: Christchurch

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby archbarch » Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:15 pm

This article intersects nicely with this discussion - http://www.theatlantic.com/features/arc ... ry/383516/
User avatar
archbarch
 
Posts: 595
Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Evil Chicken » Sat Jan 03, 2015 9:49 pm

Yoda wrote: But as you say not much point having hi tech this and that when up are up against a man in a cave


Maybe they are hoping the "man in the cave " will steal them and try to use them??? :?:
User avatar
Evil Chicken
 
Posts: 1579
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 8:41 pm
Location: Rangiora

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Woody01 » Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:25 pm

Evil Chicken wrote:
Maybe they are hoping the "man in the cave " will steal them and try to use them??? :?:


Well at least they will be able to jump up and say HAHA! We got you at the login page!

Is it also a fundamental shift in fighter pilot mentality? You take Top Gun the movie I was in awe at as an 11 year old, though a Hollywood dramatization it remains quite a good film, but look at what they were getting at in the film, they were training the pilots to be the best of the best, man over machine. Is that the case now? I'm sure the Top gun school is still going and the Navy seems to have a handle on the skills they actually need, but I am interested to know are the same aircombat skill sets as much in focus now as they were because I get the feeling the proposed capability's of the F35 and all the drone technology taking a lot of the work will give us over weight fighter pilots eating sandwiches in the cockpit as the plane dose everything for them, cant wait to see how that works out for them when they encounter an SU27 and its wingman from some sub standard country that gets inside its manouvering envelope accidentally.

Overall I think the US will still maintain its military might over this, but at what cost to the expendable grunt? who cares???
User avatar
Woody01
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:09 pm
Location: Rangiora

Re: Damning assessment of the F35

Postby Agent X20 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:48 am

Here's the short video version:

User avatar
Agent X20
 
Posts: 9892
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 12:09 pm
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Next

Return to Off Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron